Rector interview: This is why there will be no UCPH academic boycott of Israel

The question of whether the University of Copenhagen (UCPH) should carry out an academic boycott of Israel is simple. And the answer from Henrik C. Wegener, Rector of the University of Copenhagen, is simple also.

It is a no.

He now calls on students to face up to their defeat and focus on their studies.

In this interview, he elaborates on why. And he elaborates on the UCPH collaboration with Israeli universities (including Hebrew University), the UCPH ethical standpoint in collaboration with foreign universities, the university’s relationship with the Danish government – and what sanctions you may face if you as a student or employee violate the code of conduct of UCPH.

Wide-ranging collaboration agreements

Which Israeli universities are UCPH cooperating with, and what is the nature of these collaborations?

»Good question. I do not know in detail, and I do not think anybody does. The researchers decide who it is they are collaborating with, and students can go on exchanges without involving their university. This is impossible to map out.«

It would require hundreds of employees if we were to develop a completely dedicated system that could describe who collaborates with whom, and on what

Henrik C. Wegener, Rector

The collaboration with Israeli universities has been heavily criticized for years. Shouldn’t you have mapped out the nature of these collaborations by now?

»Then we would have had to ask all researchers to declare who they are collaborating with, or we would have to look through all scientific publications to see if an Israeli university turned up. This is complicated and unmanageable, because the researchers decide for themselves. It would be a hysterical bureaucratic project if we were to map this out.«

Some students and staff believe that it is a sign of a lack of transparency on the part of UCPH that there is no clarity about which Israeli collaborations you are involved in. Are they right?

»They are welcome to go in and look through all UCPH researchers’ CVs and lists of publications. It would require hundreds of employees if we were to develop a completely dedicated system that could describe who collaborates with whom, and on what.«

The Hebrew University dispute

One collaboration that is publicly known is the UCPH exchange agreement with the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, which, according to Henrik Wegener, has been shaped especially for students who study Hebrew at the university. The major contentious issue about this university is the so-called ‘Mount Scopus Campus’ which is located in East Jerusalem and which, according to academics and international lawyers, is on illegally occupied land.

Why does UCPH collaborate with a university that allegedly operates on illegally occupied land?

»We co-operate with universities on Israeli soil and not with universities’ activities on occupied land, because that would be against Danish foreign policy. If the university has activities on occupied land, then we cannot be part of those activities.«

It is not disqualifying in itself that an Israeli university has activities that go into Palestine

Henrik C. Wegener, Rector

So you’re saying that Hebrew University has no activities on occupied land?

»No, I’m not saying that. I say that the agreement we have with Hebrew University does not, as far as we understand, include activities on occupied land,« says the rector, and refers to the fact that UCPH students who are on exchange at Hebrew University are not expected to be in the controversial area.

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How can you make sure that students who go on exchange at Hebrew University do not participate in activities on the part of the campus that is on occupied land?

»We can’t tell students what they should do when they leave home. But I can also understand that there are some ambiguities about the demarcation of this limitation. And we have therefore actually asked the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for clarification so that we can give our students precise guidance. But as it is right now, the cooperation agreement is not active at all, because our students are not allowed to go there while there is a war on,« says the rector and adds:

»But it is not disqualifying in itself that an Israeli university has activities that go into Palestine.«

Why not?

»We simply don’t interfere with that.«

If the Ministry of Foreign Affairs confirms that Hebrew University has activities on occupied land, will you suspend the cooperation?

»Then we will inform our students that they are not allowed to be on occupied land. If it turns out that we are involved in cooperation on occupied land, it will be contrary to Danish foreign policy, and then it has to be stopped immediately. But I am not aware that we have collaborations of this nature,« he says, and continues:

»As far as exchange agreements are concerned, a lot has to be wrong before we place restrictions on where students can go. We don’t say that students are only allowed to travel to liberal democracies either. As long as they know that what they are presented with at a university in a dictatorial state is not an academic reality — but rather a political reality — then we see no problem with it.«

The individual researcher’s ethical assessment

One thing is the activities on occupied land, another thing is the now well-substantiated accusations of a connection between Israeli universities and the Israeli military. What is your position on this?

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»We don’t really have a position. We recognise that a university is a cornerstone in society that underpins the country in which it is located. Danish universities also contribute to the Danish armed forces – these are the circumstances of a state institution. So we acknowledge that it may occur. That doesn’t mean we support it, but it is irrelevant to the case.«

As an institution of knowledge, shouldn’t you take an ethical position on the activities that your partners are involved in?

Our job is to enlighten. And if restrictions have to be made on this enlightenment, it has to come from policymakers

Henrik C. Wegener, Rector

»The researchers decide for themselves who they collaborate with. And the individual researcher has to make their own ethical assessment on whether they want their research to be applied for both the good and the bad. All research has a dual-use perspective. Some researchers, for example, have strong opinions on whether laboratory animals may be used, others do not. The only thing we require of our researchers is that they stay on the right side of the law.«

You will not assess whether UCPH researchers are allowed to participate in research activities that contribute to acts of war?

»You can’t make that delimitation. That is precisely the point in the dual-use perspective. You can invent an ingenious artificial intelligence technology that can be used to reach people on the moon, or to diagnose cancer. But the same technology can be used for something grim in the wrong hands. And the individual researcher needs to always take these things into consideration,« says the rector and adds:

»Our job is to enlighten. And if restrictions have to be made on this enlightenment, it has to come from policymakers. It is not for us to decide on these kinds of things.«

University and government relationship

You refer to the government’s foreign policy on the issue of an academic boycott. But is UCPH not an independent democratic institution?

»Yes, but we are subject to the Danish government. We are academically free, but we are not politically free. And the only people who can reduce or delimit the UCPH academic freedom are the politicians in the Danish parliament.«

Henrik Wegener states that the university could — in principle, and legally — choose to implement an academic boycott, but that management has made an active choice not to do so. When UCPH chose to boycott Russia in line with other Danish universities, it was a tall order from the government.

We are academically free, but we are not politically free.

Henrik C. Wegener, Rector

»We will never impose further restrictions on ourselves than those coming from the Danish parliament. It is important that our researchers are not suspected of communicating anything other than what is academically true. They should not have a political or commercial agenda. We must be able to trust that researchers speak as independent academics. It would therefore also be deeply damaging if I started dictating who our researchers are allowed to collaborate with on my own initiative,« he says.

When the government wanted to implement a master’s reform, UCPH management had no hesitation in loudly and publicly declaring your disagreement. Why is this case any different?

»It is, first of all, our own policy field. Secondly, we voiced our criticism before the decision was taken – I think that was our duty. As soon as the reform had been voted through by a political majority, we made an about turn and said, okay, then we have to make the best solution we can. Then we’ll fall into line, because we have to.«

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Democratic versus non-democratic means

If, according to the rector, students or staff members think that UCPH should change its behaviour, they should go through the official democratic channels.

»The students could try to join their academic council at their faculty and propose a local academic boycott. I don’t think they would succeed. But it is the academic council that sets the framework for the work at the individual faculties – not me,« says Henrik Wegener.

»I think you should go through the institutions we already have if you want to influence the university’s behaviour instead of trying to force it through via non-democratic means.«

What impression does it make on you that several hundred UCPH employees (specifically 690) have signed a declaration in support of the Students against the Occupation’s demands and methods?

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»This makes an approximately seven per cent impression on me. Then there are about 93 per cent of employees left who have not signed the declaration of support,« says the rector and continues:

»I think it is very unwise to conduct this kind of poll among colleagues. It can lead to conflicts, and it is completely unnecessary. We have plenty of academic disagreements about the university that we can argue over, so there is no reason to also start dividing people up into who is for or against a boycott of Israel,« he says and continues:

If we start mixing up political decision-making with academic knowledge, then the institution loses credibility

Henrik C. Wegener, Rector

»And because seven per cent of the employees have signed, should they be allowed to decide over the remaining 93 per cent? Not as I see it. Others may see it differently. It sounds as if Students Against the Occupation think that a minority should be allowed to dictate a majority. I disagree.«

Many employees will probably say that it can be quite difficult to separate academia and politics when it comes to the festering conflict between Israel and Palestine?

»It may be, yes, but it is nevertheless our most important task as academics. I have spent most of my career disseminating information to politicians. Sometimes it’s frustrating to have to say, I can’t give you my personal opinion, because it’s unimportant,« says Wegener and adds:

»If we start mixing up political decision-making with academic knowledge, then the institution loses credibility, and thereby also the only asset we have. If we lose our credibility, we are worthless and superfluous.«

Sanctions under consideration

The University Post recently published an interview with a postdoc at the Niels Bohr Institute Thibault Capelle, who was sanctioned for helping to disrupt a meeting at the university with the Minister of Foreign Affairs Lars Løkke Rasmussen.

After Students Against the Occupation blocked and occupied the museum building on 4 September, where the rectorate has its office, the rector’s office said it would be »followed up with disciplinary measures.«

What sanctions are to be imposed on students who participated in the blockade?

»We don’t know. We’ll find out when we’ve mapped out the size of the misdemeanour. Based on this, there is then a scale that we can look at and take our assessment from. Ultimately, it can lead to expulsion from the university. Of course, this would require that you have committed a very serious violation of our regulations.«

The students have received their response: It is not going to happen. And I think they now have to say: We’ve done what we could, now it’s time to go back and focus on our studies

Henrik C. Wegener, Rector

 

Do you have examples of this from the student blockade on 4 September?

»We can’t say anything about that yet.«

How do you identify the students who may, or may not, be sanctioned?

»As best we can.«

How? Are you looking at videos, pictures?

»It could be pictures, witness testimony or something else. But I hope of course that the students who participated will come forward and tell us what they have been a part of and face the consequences of their actions. House rules are not just for fun. We have them so we can take care of each other. And this is very important in an institution as large as the university.«

As for the students’ demands for an academic boycott, the message from the rector is clear:

»The students have got their response: It is not going to happen. And I think they now have to say: We’ve done what we could, now it’s time to go back and focus on our studies. They have asked us, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Research, and they cannot go any further. It would be good for all parties if they acknowledged this,« says Henrik Wegener.

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